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Knock Off Broadheads and Brookville Lake

9K views 63 replies 16 participants last post by  buck_hunter21 
#1 ·
So there is a huge debate going on facebook right now about how Knock Off broadheads don't work. I am one against the price of Rage Broadheads 3 for 39.99 or 49.99. Well I have bought 24 for what I think $13.00 from Ebay. I have shot and killed 2 deer and dusted it off and put it right back in the quiver. I know it hurts retail sales well nobody except the folks who have them sent to them want to spend that. Also for all you wandering where to hunt. Brookville I'm telling you its magical and just tons of deer there. Get a topo Find you a corn or bean field and set up off the corner of one in the evening and morning I bet you see deer. The Rut is coming so you know its about to get wild in the hardwoods. Everyone talking about Gun Laws just go get a compound or crossbow or hell even the air bow and the debate is over.
 
#28 ·
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Also for all you wandering where to hunt. Brookville I'm telling you its magical and just tons of deer there. Get a topo Find you a corn or bean field and set up off the corner of one in the evening and morning I bet you see deer. The Rut is coming so you know its about to get wild in the hardwoods.
bonecollector14,
I was thinking about heading out to Brookville later this week for the first time. Any recommendations as to which unit to focus on? Looks like there are 6 units open for deer and would rather stay towards the northern end so maybe Unit 5 or 6. I don't mind taking a long walk in.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
 
#30 ·
As far as the Northern E
View attachment 11866

bonecollector14,
I was thinking about heading out to Brookville later this week for the first time. Any recommendations as to which unit to focus on? Looks like there are 6 units open for deer and would rather stay towards the northern end so maybe Unit 5 or 6. I don't mind taking a long walk in.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!

As far as Brookville, I have hunted a few areas. There truly are no better area than the next. On the Northern end the only place I have hunted is Quackertown around the bend from the State Park and saw a lot of sign but no deer. There is a dead end sort of that way. You can park right at the bridge and walk in but its a climb uphill and walking in some muck. I have only hunted that twice. My spot is off the beaten path a bit but keep in mind that truly anywhere any field along the lake all the way around it is going to be a good spot. just be sure you find a field edge. You can even get off the field in the hardwoods. There are some fields that have small strips of woods between the fields that are awesome for big bucks. I have yet to see one of these giant bruisers but sign is all around you'll find scrapes in the woods and all that.
 
#29 ·
I'm going to put my two cents in.
Not everyone has that perfect "HIGH PAYING JOB" and struggle on a daily base trying to make a living. So what if a person buy's knock offs- maybe that's all they could afford at the time - should they be look down on - I don't think so - we don't know their situation...
Go to Bass Pro or Cabela's and buy that hunting coat for 300-dollar that has the little black tag inside that said, "made in china" or go to Walmart and buy one for 50 bucks, whats the different's and who cares???
Sometimes we need to think before we speak!!!!
 
#31 ·
DEC is correct I'm not sure you all are understanding what he is saying. The patents are essentially stolen/ignored by the Chinese, and they begin producing the products, profiting off of the US based companies R&D efforts and costs. We buy the product, the money goes to China, creating jobs in China. Lining the pockets of the chinese businessman vs the US businessman who may very well be your neighbor, or employ your friend/family member or you. Every knockoff sold from China, limits the growth of the US based business, limiting production. With increased production comes decreased unit prices as volume increases. Do what you want, but you're doing more damage than you realize by creating a market for what is really a criminal act.
 
#34 ·
What I'm saying is IDC who is producing them as long as its cheaper I'm game.
That could be one of the most selfish statements that I have ever read on the internet.

I have no clue what you do for a job that pays for your family's food on the table. But by your argument, you are OK with me buying a rip off product/service that directly hurts the very source of your paycheck, all so that I can put money into my pocket for other stuff? So basically, I screw you out of money that you legally deserve so that I can benefit.

Yea that makes perfect sense.
 
#33 ·
Just FYI. (This goes for most points things). If you buy cheap ones things they will eventually fail. You can shoot a sharpened stick through a deer and kill it if you want to but that doesn't mean it's the best option. One or two or five deer doesn't give you the data you need. A true broad head is put to the test during certain situation. Like blowing through a front shoulder or penetrating though The scapula of a slightly quartered to animal. Those are just a few examples that will draw out the flaws of arrows and broad heads. Buyer be ware.
 
#35 ·
Further ... lets say that you bonecollector14 come up with a widget that is your idea and you invest your time, your money, your blood sweat and tears, and you risk your financial future on this entrepeneurial idea. You decided that it was worth it to risk it all and pursue the American Dream. You paid $20k of your money just on the patent. Your wife and kids are being fed off of this idea. Your lights are being kept on by this idea ... an idea that YOU own. You are telling me that you would be cool with me stealing your idea and having it made for pennies on the dollar and me selling it to the exact same market here in the States? You would really be OK with that? I mean hey why not because then I and others would be offering your widget "as long as it is cheaper" ... you are "game". Right? I mean hey, if I had not done this, then maybe that extra income would have paid for you go get a new truck, or a year of your kid's college, or that 20 year anniversary vacation for you and your wife ... but your cool with it because I stole your idea and offered it cheaper elsewhere ... right?
 
#40 · (Edited)
Believe it or not, but some people actually dream to build a business where they produce a product in the USA with USA laborers and material giving USA people jobs. I cannot speak for Rage, as I know they do produce their actual product over seas. However, I can speak on behalf of three very good friends of mine in the hunting industry. Mike of Magnus Broadheads, and also Dave and Brad of DSD. Both could definitely have their products made over in China to offer a product that costs less to manufacture and yields them greater returns. However, I know first hand, that in both cases, the owners of these companies take greater pride in making a product in the USA and employing people right there in their home towns. Does that line up with your Shark Tank model? No. Do any of them live in $500,000 homes or drive $60,000 trucks with graphics ... No. You would be shocked if you knew the truth. Could both make more by moving to China, yep, but they don't. Both have been ripped off. Magnus is ripped off every day by sellers on Ebay and Amazon who sell using the Magnus name, broadheads made in China. I have stood right there at ATA and other trade shows when an Asian gentleman personally handed me a blade that is a the exact copy of a Magnus blade, trying to persuade us to manufacture in China. When it was explained that Mike holds the patent on that blade, he immediately went running. Then there was the time that DSD was ripped off by Dakota Decoys, Dave Constantine, and Brooks Johnson when they copied a turkey decoy and had it made in China a few years ago. Is it legally right and fair for them to be ripped off? Hell no it isn't. Magnus and DSD take it on the chin and often have to deal with warranty claims made on copy cat products that are not theirs. Further, every copy cat sale is potentially a sale that they themselves did not get.

Look, I took an idea and built a successful business of my own. I hold a patent that I license to John Deere actually. In under 10 years, I built a business from nothing, literally risking everything, using 100% USA labor and materials. I had people cry that I was too expensive. I had people try to compete through cheaper outlets ... they couldn't. At the end of 9.5 years, I sold that business and retained all of my patent rights. I personally know what goes into risking it all for a dream and it paid off for me. There is no sin in making money and achieving personal wealth. I won't apologize to anyone for my situation, as I was the one who personally put it all on the line. For anyone to criticize me for my home, my acres of personal hunting ground, and my truck ... is pure jealousy because they are not willing to risk it all like I did. I am personal friends with so many hard working American business owners who have similar dreams. Nothing pisses me off more than to see slime balls rip off someone else's intellectual property that they have worked so hard to create. What further pisses me off is when someone knowingly supports a counterfeit market.
 
#42 ·
The point he trying to make is about the “as long as it’s cheaper I’ll buy it” mentality. You have to get what he is saying don’t you? The Chinese are stealing from the guys who are doing what you are dreaming to do with a product. People are supporting criminals when they buy counterfeit products and they are undercutting the guy who worked hard to market his product. I’m sorry that you are in a bad situation but I feel like most people that say they can’t afford the real deal they aren’t being truthful. They would just rather save a buck on broadheads and spend their savings on something else. I know guys like that and funny thing is they are shooting top of the line bows. $1000+ on a bow but they can’t afford broadheads
 
#43 ·
Look man, I am not judging you or your situation. We ALL have gone through tough times and struggles. I never said I started out with $20K. I literally started a business from NOTHING in 2006. After scaping to get by for three years I finally started turning a profit so that I could finally pay me a bit. In 2011 I applied for a patent after inventing a molding process for a JD supplier who I worked.my ass off to get in front of. In late 2012 and $20k of money that I practically killed myself to make, I had a patent. From there it took off. If someone ripped my idea off and took it to a 3rd world country all so that someone else could profit either through manufacture or to save a buck, I would rain holy hell on them legally and would have every right to do so. As an entrepreneur myself, I have little tolerance when it comes to stealing or supporting of the stealing of someone else's intellectual property. It stings because I have close friends in the hunting industry that I have to watch being ripped off by these Chinese thieves and then I see fellow hunters crapping on these hard working Americans (who are fellow hunters) by supporting these very thieves.
 
#48 ·
I try to purchase as much USA made hunting products I can. My reason for this is I run a small company called Webb Product's which sells adjustable inserts. All the components are machined locally USA made. Yes I could have China machine all these components and send them to my company and maybe sell these products a few cents cheaper, however what happens to the local companies? They have no work and go out of business if people keep going over seas. I would rather keep local companies running strong instead of a country I don't live in. As far as nocks off go, it plays hard on the original company by undermining them with products that people believe are Original but maybe made of softer grades of aluminum or steel. Then the guys that use the nocks complain about how they don't work or bad craftsmanship when they don't even have the same product they are bad mouthing. Nock offs are a huge problem to the American companies. For the guys that say it's all about profit, have you ever tried running a hunting product company in America? There's more to it than what you think.
 
#49 ·
Ok DEC I want to say I'm sorry about my post yesterday. I just had a nerve hit because saying we won't risk it or any of that stuff. Some people just have different lives different ablilities to do more than others. When my house caught on fire and Heather left it basically ruined any chance I had at being a business owner in the outdoor industry. Your talking someone who had a plan a great one just to see Wild Game come up quicker faster better than I was able to with the same exact business plan. I wanted to have a new outdoor feed seed and nutritional supplement company which obviously would have allowed me over time to a buy other business's and grow my product line into cameras range finders electronic equipment and game calls. I was going to risk everything but lost my chance. Truth is any man is just a peace of paper or a breakup or divorce away from losing anything he's worked for. I just ended up in that situation. So now because of that I have to cut corners and save anywhere I can possible. That is all this is about. I don't want to support those companies I served in the Air Force so I love USA. I also live in New Castle Indiana and went to Ball State and see first hand the price of companies moving their product over seas. The truth is that's just what some can afford. Spending $50.00 on a pack of broad heads directly now takes something away from my children so I have to save any way possible. I know it didn't need to get personal but that's the truth. I also know that I put down the only deer I've shot at with those heads. The US only cares about bottom line. Banks only care about how much your making and investors only care about returns on their investment. The entire system is truly flawed. I do apologize for my actions and words towards you in any way.
 
#51 ·
Business is business, even charities like to keep the green flowing.

It is rare for the avg Joe to have an idea that can be patented, let alone make money. Then even more rare, one that makes good money. And the rarest of the rare........one that does, and lasts for a bit.

Even if you had THE idea, you have to get others to see it, and then want it. And when you do that, coming from nothing...........the risks, the work................somebody with a more established biz/market might just come along and offer you enough $ to take away your headache.

Who develops a business or product and then goes "gee that was fun, had my time........let's just GIVE it to somebody else" ? Nobody.
 
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#52 ·
My family has had a biz for over 70 yrs. Nobody in line on that side now........dunno if it will be sold to non fam or shut down. I can't afford to buy it..........don't have the $ and can't take the risk of changing health insurance.

Getting married, having kids...........one has to minimize risks.

Want to shoot good guns/bows and gear?

Stay single and get fixed. ;)

Doing the American Dream crap...........by the time you can afford to go on those great hunts your body won't let you.
 
#53 ·
Had kids, got divorced.........didn't buy knock off broadheads.
But I went to Purdue ;)

BSU aint bad..........have a couple kids going there at the moment.
That's why I shoot an old used Blackwidow and have not had a new one made.
 
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#54 ·
Like I said earlier, avoiding buying Chinese is nearly impossible. I try to buy as much USA made stuff as possible, but often it isn't possible in our global economy. What I do avoid is knowingly buying counterfeit regardless of where it is made or where the rightful company is based out of. Rage is a perfect example. Here is a USA company (now part of a larger holding company) who is making their product in China for whatever their business reasons. Just because they are making their product in China doesn't give others the right to steal it and sell counterfeit ones here. Somewhere in Rage is a fellow American sitting at a CAD machine working with another American or two who are designing broadheads. Somewhere in Rage are a team of American sales persons, marketing people, and various other support positions who are working their butts off trying to get their product in front of customers. So even though their head comes from China, when we buy a counterfeit head, we hurt these fellow American workers. It isn't right. And it gets worse for companies like Magnus who actually do their manufacturing here in the USA.

Hookeye ... Boiler Up! I always knew I liked you.
 
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