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apples vrs. oranges....

Discussion in 'Indiana Whitetail Hunting' started by QuailDancer, Apr 21, 2006.

  1. This post may close soon, I had wanted to post this on a different thread...

    I’ve had the privilege of living in IN, FL,TN and OR and now am back to my home state of IN. I know the demographics, populations (humans and wildlife), terrain and habitat are so vastly different in all of them. Even by state, northern IN is very different than southern IN, western TN seems like a different state than eastern TN…how one hunts or fishes in the state of OR depends entirely on which direction they drove the last two hours….huge differences folks.

    With that said, its very hard to determine regulations that would blanket an entire state let alone allow us to make similarities State to State that are anything more than vague comparisons at best. Just look at how the number of bonus does changes county by county in IN…

    My point is that we need sound judgment to maintain and manage quality wildlife numbers in the state for hunters and non-hunters alike. I believe that the OBR is an important and effective tool to suit that purpose, and frankly can not understand the concept of those who would focus their energy to harvest multiple bucks when so many does out there for the taking. (in my mind, just as challenging to harvest)

    By bringing some balance to the heard…arriving closer to the 50:50 ratio, I believe many of the techniques such as calling, rattling and the like would become more effective (more competition in the heard). You want meat…kill some does…you want to challenge yourselves hunting…OBR certainly adds challenge…target the bucks you truly desire as opposed to dropping one that just walks into range.
  2. it's true what you say quail. it seems insane for me that with the liberal doe permits people would need multible bucks. but i honostly think some people don't care. their way of preparing for deer season is going out a day before season and shooting their gun. they just aren't interested in letting anything walk. they are strictly meat hunters and don't care about big rack small rack. ask a wagon load of amish hunters going out for a deer drive what they think about the obr and they won't even know what you are talking about. i've seen it 1st hand. they'll circle a woods and send drivers through and kill everything that comes out. weekend hunters at crane military hunts don't care about the obr. every yr. i see spikes 4 pointers buttons brought in. all the serious bow hunters i know there wouldn't think of taking a small buck. even though crane in yrs. past have allowed an extra buck a lot of the bowhunters have went away empty handed. why? because i think after a few yrs hunting a serious hunter starts to realize the value of trophy potential. i think alot of it has to do with maturity as a hunter. i think this forum helps educate a lot of young hunters who might otherwise not have much communication with people who belive in the obr. i know a lot of the hunting shows kill big racks but how many of them teach the importance of obr. not very many. it can be a challenge to sometimes change minds and opinions that's why it's so important to keep these threads alive because there are alot of young people who could be pursuaded and educated to the importance of indiana's heard potintial. i'm not that knowledgable to whitetail management but i truly believe the obr is a valuable tool. i have a question for anyone that dissagrees with the obr. how many basket racks does it take to fill your lust?

  3. God Bless the OBR!!!!!!

    You mean the Birdman, actually has some intelligence?? Just kidding Quail...Very good thread. Tennessee is so different from Indiana...a LOT more habitat/cover. I do disagree with one thing though...You really can compare states like Indiana and Illinois because terrain/topography wise they're very similar.

    If Indiana would mimic Illinois' firearms season structure....this state could possibly overtake Illinois in numbers of real giants.

    The absolute FACT of the matter is the reason Illinois puts out tons and tons of Giants every year is because they have a shortened firearms season held toward the end of the primary breeding season. Indiana pales in comparison because from the first deer seasons to now, we've always had a long, peak rut firearms season. Way too many bucks have been harvested over the years, allowing very few (yes, statewide) to reach their true genetic potential.

    The reason that Indiana has recently began to improve in age structure ,etc. is largely due to the ONE BUCK RULE....PERIOD!!!! Why some people have a hard time accepting this FACT is beyond me.

    Never fear men, there's a writer in this state who'll make this FACT known to the whole world. If a small interest group can't accept this, then tough!!!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 22, 2006
  4. Iv'e personally never met a OBR hater,Iv'e read a few posts complaining of not being able to take more bucks,but it was all baseless as stated in above posts.Dean wrote 'Too many bucks have been taken'to which i always agreed. I never want the OBR to change,i want that 'improved herd'.
  5. OBR is the only way to go. I don't like to compare state to state, let take care of Indiana. You are going to have few hunters that are going to kill anything that moves and there is nothing we can do about it, and those who will kill just to be killing. What we need to do is what we are doing and improve every year. Choose you bucks wishly and don't be afraid to take a doe or two. As long as we (who believes that OBR, QDM and food plots) does work and the more we can tell the better the deer in Indiana will grow in numbers and large bucks. Gang keep up the good work telling and showing everyone that their is larger bucks being killed each year.
  6. Lots 'O Big Bucks in Indiana now....

    Hey Gang, Check out this month's (May issue) Indiana Game and Fish. Check out the "Indiana Camera Corner" on pages 56 and 57. This is the most impressive collection of bucks I've ever seen in this magazine. Most are from the 2004 season. Is the One Buck Rule having any effect on the age structure of bucks being harvested in Indiana????
  7. seabee

    seabee Staff Member Super Mod Mod

    Quail, my friends and i argue about this all the. I am glad that someone is seeing things the way i do. I have a friend that talks about iowa, and kansas and all the big bucks that come out of those areas and how we need to manage our heard like they do. None of my friends have ever hunted in iowa or much less even drove thru it. I have a good friend from the military that has a farm in iowa that is 300 acres and nobody hunts it.Yes our topography and terain is the same but when i went out there to do some deer hunting i noticed there was much more land to go around. Most of his friends that came over to talk about what they had seen the first morning of season was hunting 400 to 600 acre tracts by themselves. Out there a buck could stay on 600 acres all season where here that same 600 acres would have been broken down into a few 40 to 60 acre corn fields that havent been sold YET, some 20 acre estate lots , and every thing that surounds it is now subdivided into 5 to 10 acre homesites that were sold for an inflated price, so while he is out and about in his daily routine he crosses 16 different property lines. I am used to hunting woodlots that are 10 to 30 acres at most. when we got on the subject of how large his tract was he said in his part of the state 300 acres doesnt even get honorable mention as being considered a large farm. My point is that in indiana the private tracts of ground are much,much smaller than in the plains states. I truly believe it is much harder to manage our big buck population than it is in some other states with large tracts of ground. As for moving the gun season out of the rut i really dont see the purpose of this. I am not against it, but i just think the one buck rule is going to get the results we want its just going to take some time. I truly like hunting during the rut as do most deer hunters. My point is that the OBR is exactly what we needed, is there more we can do? probably, but with a long season it gives hunters plenty of oppurtunity to bag a giant whitetail and still lets many big ones survive untill the next season. just mt two cents,
  8. The state of Indiana will not move the deer hunting season out of the rut period like Illinois has done. Why? $$$ The number of days in the field for Illinois hunters during the firearms season is less under their season than the season we currently have in Indiana which runs during the rut period. In my opinion the number of deer tags sold in Indiana would decrease if the season was moved out of the rut and the season was shortened. The opportunity to get out and hunt would be less under a shorter hunting season and "hunters" would be less willing to fork over the cash for tags if their days in the field were cutback. Would it make for better hunting if we did do this?...absolutely...would the opportunity to take larger bucks increase?...absolutely...would the state of Indiana lose money under this scenario...YES...unless they increased the non-resident deer tags and not leave the non-resident deer tags priced as they are today...under the "new scenario" many more non-resident licenses would be sold, even at a higher cost, due to the opportunity to take a larger buck. If the state of Indiana is not willing to make these changes then let's at least hope they have the wisdom to keep the OBR going.
  9. I nearly fell over!!!

    Man Dean, I bet that one hurt to say, LOL!!!!:chicken: :chicken: :chicken: :chicken:
  10. Indiana VS. "The Big Buck States"

    Not really Quail. Seabee, there are parts of Indiana that are more wide open like Iowa too. Not all of Indiana is chopped up into tiny pieces. Remember too that Iowans bow hunt the entire month of November. You speak of hunting the rut...Wouldn't you love to bowhunt the entire rut?? Hunting with bows and arrows when the bucks are most visible/vulnerable is what keeps so many Iowa bucks living from year to year. How many giant bucks do you see walking around in wanderlust the first week of December?? This is when Iowa has their firearms season. And Kansas? Kansas also has a post rut/short firearms season. Why do you think that all those giants are running around Kansas?? Also, you mention that you don't think removing the firearms season from the rut would do much, but it would cause a tremendous shift in the age structure of bucks in only a couple years. I'd be glad to re-post the Illinois Record Book numbers vs. Indiana's again if you'd like for me to. Or Iowa's, or Kansas'.....

    The Indiana firearms structure will never be changed under the current administration...So, the OBR is the answer for the time being. But, what is going to happen if they go back to a two buck format??
    The rhetoric out of Indianapolis makes this a distinct possibility. If you want the OBR to remain, then be ready to fight for it after this coming season...the 5th and final year of the "One Buck Rule Experiment". Jim Mitchell and Company were never in favor of this in the first place.

    Going back to a two buck limit will start the reversal of the tremendous age structure increase we have witnessed in the last few years. Also, they say that the herd is growing now...well, watch what happens if two bucks are allowed to be harvested again...The doe harvest will once again go down and the population will grow rapidly.

    It's not Apples VS. Oranges, Quail. It's Indiana Apples VS. Illinois' Apples.....etc.
  11. seabee

    seabee Staff Member Super Mod Mod

    Dean, i never said that moving the gun hunt out of the rut wouldnt do much, i just said i dont see the need for it. The OBR is letting more bucks live till the next year than ever before. I would not be against moving the gun hunt out of the rut because then i wouldnt even have to own a shotgun. I just think with it being hunters against the administration, the OBR and long deer season for selling tags is a win,win for both of us. On a side note we give lots of credit to the OBR but we need to pat ourselves on the back a little. More and more hunters are passing on smaller bucks not because they have to but because they know what it will do in the future. More and more people i know are killing 2 does and eating a buck tag at the end of season because mr pope$young didnt come by their stand. That has nothing to do with the OBR and has everything to do with US hunters practicing quality deer management. I dont have charts to tell me how many people were actually killing two bucks per year, but i would guess it wasnt a huge percent. You are right, what it did was let the doe population get out of control, now if you want 2 deer as most people try to do for the freezer you are forced to take a doe in most cases. Once again, their is more we can do to improve the age structure and grow larger antlers but we are heading in the right direction. I cant wait to see what comes walking into my woods this October!!!!!!
  12. really all you need to do is get more alfalfa planted and you can get all the deer on your property
    if you can't put minerals out then you shouldn't be able to build food plots
    this is not important right!!!!!!!!!!!!
    obr is working for all the people that need.... antlers on the wall us hunters who are filling the freezer with meat are killing does
    i never took a buck this past season i really don't care about the size of the rack but i also think the small bucks should have a chance to mature and reproduce i think that all of you that are taking small.... oops that button buck i just killed.... oh but it will taste good.... wait thats your one buck regardless of the size of the button or rack your done we need rules to protect all bucks regardless of the age... educating yourself and new hunters is the first step ....get good binos to see what you are shooting... a buck is a buck ...not georges$:bash:
    go seabee
  13. Roger that Seabee!!!
  14. Who needs antlers for the wall, Sam?? Education?? Now that I can agree with you on. We need to educate the hunters of this state who don't know much about proper whitetail deer management. Would you like to join the Indiana Chapter of Quality Deer Management Association?? That is, if you aren't a member yet. Are you a member of the Indiana Deer Hunter's Association?? If not, Joe Bacon can point you in the right direction. We need to educate as many Indiana residents on proper 21st Century whitetail deer management. North American Whitetail Magazine is the leader in this department. Everyone should read this valuable management "tool".
  15. Seabee I know what you are saying. When I deer hunted in Iowa I noticed there aren't cross roads every mile, but every two to three square miles. I also looked at a plat book while there and saw that many people own from road to road to road. I would say the same about areas in western Illinois. What you say about a deer crossing 16 property lines is true. It goes along with the thread I started on public hunting ground and the OBR. A late firearms season is definitely a contributor, but I think larger parcels of land help as well. Maybe that is why Illinois hunters can take 2 bucks and still have wallhangers. Here with the smaller parcels we are more like public hunting ground to a buck with a 2-3 square mile range, and therefore the OBR is very important.

    Treehugger, you make a good point on a shorter season out of the rut. I have a cousin who moved from Indiana to southern Ohio. Their gun season starts on a Monday and ends on a Sunday, 7 days with the weekend at the end of the season. The muzzleloader season is 4 days long and after Christmas. That bering said, he has quite a few hunting opportunities. He says not as many people hunt and most that do hunt rabbits because it comes in season in early November. Poaching is big in his area. Not so much out of season poaching, but people taking more than their limit. My cousin checked with his CO (they have only 1 per county) and he said the CO didn't seem too concerned. He said the CO just commented that each year there are fewer and fewer deer hunters. That being said you might see why I made a trip down there over spring break to scout a little.