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Effect Of Land Leasing On Hunting

Discussion in 'Sound Off' started by David4759, Jul 24, 2006.

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  1. THE EFFECT OF LAND LEASING ON SPORT HUNTING





    Back around 20 years or so; I started noticing the affect of so called land leasing had on our sport of hunting. Before the days of personal computers, e-mail, and Hunting Forums, we were pretty much dependent on what we heard or read about on this issue. At first, this leasing phenomenal was very low keyed and only a few stripped mined coal fields had it in place. Most of those who leased these properties were hunting clubs. This was back in 1987, and at this point-in-time; I though I should write the IDNR Director, bringing this to his attention. In my letter, I tried to warn , The Department Of Natural Resources, of what could happen if this leasing practice ever got a “foot-hold” in our State. I even wrote to the local newspaper’s sport editor, and they ran an article on the subject of leasing out hunting grounds. Which brings us up-to-date (today) in which we are currently seeing more and more private land and farms being leased out to hunters at an alarming rate where each must pay a sum of money in order to hunt on these “Pay-to-Hunt” areas. Not only local Farmers or Landowners are practicing this but now we are seeing business and organizations, with deep pockets, coming in buying up hunting rights to farms and other lands and sub-leasing them out to a certain number of Hunters willing to pay big money to hunt. Now I am certain that many of you have been displaced from an area, you have hunted on for years with permission, only to return and find that you can’t hunt there any longer as a group of people offered a great deal of money to the landowner. I’ve listed below a few concepts that I feel negatively affect our sport of hunting as we know it.

    (1) Leasing of hunting land , in my opinion, takes away the enjoyment of the once past time activity, reducing it to a “Business Transaction” along with a contract to sign, plus rules that go against sound game management plans.

    (2) The practice of leasing, in many ways is adverse to sound management practices that the state’s DNR has established. In many cases it circumvents wise management programs which can lead to diseases in wildlife and game animals.

    (3) The practice of leasing allows only a set number of hunters on a given area of land, where many more could hunt. Also restrictive rules hurt wise management of game animals.

    (4) Last, but most important to the future of hunting , is that if “Young” or Youth Hunters, are having to go through all that leasing is placing on them, plus the expense; they will simply quit hunting altogether. Those, who are hunting today may very well be the last generation to hunt. Soon the only people that will enjoy the sport of hunting will be the rich. They will simply hog-up all the quality grounds leaving meager if any land for the average hunter.

    We all need to write the IDNR and the NRC to voice our outrage concerning the practice of leasing out of hunting ground. There are some solutions the IDNR or the State Of Indiana could consider or do. One thing is they could offer a property tax reduction and offer game management plans to aid the Farmer or Landowner in establishing a sound habitat for wildlife, in exchange for not charging a leasing fee to hunters. Now those Landowners and Farmers who wish to continue to lease out for a profit; they should not receive any tax breaks, and infact they should be required to buy a license and submit game management plans to the state. They also should carry liability insurance of at least one million dollars. At any rate our sport of hunting, with it’s rising prices is on very unstable ground. If we want our hunting to remain then we should bring this to the attention of those in the IDNR and try to return hunting as it once was, a past time to enjoy, not a business transaction or past time for the super rich . <Thanks>



     
  2. ccavacini

    ccavacini Super Mod Mod

    David, I have mixed feelings on lease hunting. Years ago, when I hunted waterfowl a lot, we leased a couple of places. It was great knowing we would always have a place.

    Since I don't deer hunt, I have no idea on the problems leasing causes there. I will admit, that if I have the chance to lease a good pheasant hunting place, I'd jump at the chance...Good private ground is so hard to come by. I'm fortunate, that I've got some private ground to hunt every year.

    Opening more public land to hunters would help. I hunt all the public places in Northern IN and Southern MI. They may be crowded, but I never have problems getting some birds.
     

  3. They can open all the public ground they want but until they regulate it a little bit, it turns into a wasteland. I went down to Fairbanks for muzzleloader season the first year it was open. We went down for a single day and that place was a dump. People dont care anymore, we saw several does that had been shot and gutted stuffed in cheesecloth game bags and left laying on the side road. We saw trash everywhere. People just walking through the woods trying to get shot by someone. Rabbit dogs running deer through the hollers, we found three dead bucks that people had shot and not found. We found tree stands that had shot shells laying under them. Somone had even picked them up and stuck them on branches of small limbs. The place wad depressing to say the least. It was a great purchase at one point for the state. But the minute they just opened it up and said here you go guys do with it what you want it became a horrible purchase. The place is a disaster now. For that reason I believe that leasing is alright to an extent. Do i believe that out of state people should be allowed to lease land in this state for the direct purpose of hunting. NO... Do i believe that outfitters and their operations should be allowed to lease in this state? NO But do i believe that a guy that wants to help a farmer out in the spot he needs it most, his pocket, and wants to keep a property pristine and clean, yeah i agree with leasing then. Farmers get screwed in this country on several occasions the biggest is that our government gets to tell them how much they are going to pay them for thier products, not right. Its the only business in the country that someone else sets the prices for a business. Leasing is generally not right but in some cases I can be all for it.
     
  4. LEASING IS A VERY COMPLICATED "300 POUND GORILLA". AS A PERSON WHO LEASES GROUND MYSELF, I SEE THE BOTH SIDES OF THE EQUASION, AND NEITHER HAS AN ANSWER. ON ONE HAND HOW DO YOU TELL A LANDOWNER THAT HE CANNOT USE ALL LEGAL MEANS TO OBTAIN REVENUE FROM HIS GROUND. IF I HAD THOUSANDS OF ACRES, AND DID NOT HUNT, I MIGHT CONSIDER THE ADDITIONAL INCOME THAT LEASING PROMISES.

    ON THE OTHER HAND, I AGREE THAT LEASING IS FORCING ALOT OF THE "REGULAR" GUYS AND THEIR FAMALIES OUT OF A PLACE TO HUNT. FORCING THEM ONTO ALREADY "BURDONED" PUBLIC LANDS, WHILE A FEW "FAT WALLETS" HAVE MORE GROUND AND GAME THAN THEY CAN UTILIZE. IS IT FAIR, NO, BUT THEN ALOT OF THINGS IN LIFE ARE NOT FAIR. THIS IS A CAPITALISTIC SOCIETY NOT SOCIALISTIC, AND AS LONG AS THERE IS A DEMAND, THERE WILL BE A DOLLAR INVOLVED.

    I WOULD SUPPORT THE LEGISLATURE GIVING TAX BREAK INCENTIVES TO LANDOWNERS, NOT TO LEASE. BUT ULTIMATELY AS LONG AS THERE IS A MARKET FOR HUNTING, LEASING WILL BE INEVITABLE.
     
  5. public ground

    If you can't afford a lease, there is good public ground hunting all over Indiana. Check it out. Leases are here to stay, whining about it isn't going to change anything. Paying to hunt ground and traveling a long way (gas money)to hunt it is not what I call having a fat wallet, it kind of lightens my wallet. Go out and hunt or stay home and whine.
     
  6. daaaamn huntin why dont you tell us all how you really feel. Dont sugar coat it or nothing... :yikes:
     
  7. pay to play

    In my opinion, hunting is not any different than any other form of entertaiment we enjoy to day. We have to pay to play.

    rook
     
  8. David, I agree that leasing has its negatives...as well as its pros. I respect your opinion, but would like for you to elaborate on a few things if you would.


    Can you elaborate on these sound management practices that you feel leasing would destroy that the IDNR has put forth? Also, can you also elaborate on how diseases are spread by lease hunters? And what are these so-called "restrictive" ( I think I know where you picked this word up...)rules that hurt wise management of game animals.

    Just curious...
     
  9. First, Thank you for reading my post. I tried to make it as clear so everyone could understand it. Yes, if an area such as a large piece of farmland is leased out to a limited number of hunters, then I see an area that would likely be underharvested, due to selective hunting, like bucks with 12 points & 16" spread. Everyone should know about "carrying Capacity", as it related to modern wildlife management, inthat an area can only support so many species of wildlife. If the carrying capacity exceeds it limit, then habitat starts to decline regardless if it is replaced by crops or grasses. Also Disease could break out like "Blue Tongue" or worse CWD and a few other nasty diseases. The DNR hires Biologists & Managers to help with the population control in that season limits are set to keep the herd in balance, and to insure a healthy habitat. If most of the land is leased out, where only a few can hunt then their work get tough inthat they don't have the "Hunter Base" to deal with some of the problems. I am not sure this is happening now, but it could if things get crazy in the Sport of Hunting.
     
  10. In The State Of Mississippi Too!

    The same is happening to Hunters in Mississippi! <See Below>


    Hunters: Stand strong against fee hikes in land leases
    By Jeff Dean
    Hattiesburg American







    As most of you know it is that time of the year when we renew our hunting leases.

    I wanted to write a column today about something that is greatly troubling me, and literally thousands of Mississippi hunters could be facing eventually.
    [​IMG] Anyone who knows me knows that I am a hunter. I am very passionate about hunting in my home state, and where I live in Newton County. But something has happened recently that worries me about the future of hunting for Mississippians.



    I have for a number of years now leased a medium-size tract of land originally from International Paper Co. (I.P.) I.P. sold all of their property holdings in Newton County and some other counties around Mississippi. The tract of land that I happened to lease was sold to a group of private individuals who in turn sold it to a group of about five or so other private individuals from out of town.

    Things were fine for the first couple of years; then one member of the group approached me with a new lease dollar amount per acre. It was an astounding increase for just a year. From $4.50, which is about what it is actually worth per acre, to an overwhelming $11 per acre - an outrageous increase.

    I tried to reason with the group, and offered them an increase, a fair amount increase which covered the taxes on the land and allowed for substantial profit. But it has been to no avail.

    The last time I was approached by the man, which was recently, he came to me yet again, this time asking for $10 to $11 per acre. I again refused to pay such an amount. He then threatened that if I didn't lease it for that amount that he would bring in clubs from Louisiana and Arkansas and other places out of state to lease it.

    My wife and I expressed our concerns to him about him doing that, because we live right here where the property is located. We have a 3-year-old son, and we would be worried about him playing outside with people we do not know the conduct of, and habits of shooting high-powered rifles so close to our home.

    But our concerns fell upon deaf ears. In fact, his response to that was; "I hope nothing happens to him, but if it does I can't do anything about it."

    I hope all hunting club members that read this column will take heed: If you lease land from people that live out of town, you too may very well be facing the same situation I am.

    I hope you will stand strong on what you feel inside about this and refuse the outrageous lease increase as I have.

    I don't know an answer to this problem, but I know that if we start giving into these threats and start paying these fees, we will have taken a step in the direction of pricing ourselves right out of hunting.

    Because if we jump from $4.50, $5 per acre to $10 and $11 per acre, what will we do next season when they ask $12, $15 and $20 per acre?

    One thing is for sure, if we give into these threats, the price of our lease will never go down, it will only get higher and higher. We will have sent the message that all they have to do is basically blackmail us, threaten us with bringing in out-of-state hunting clubs and we will cave in.

    Greed has slipped its way into the pure sport of hunting wild game in our home state, and if we give into it, we only help the greed grow until there will be no place left in our home for us to hunt, and especially not for our children and generations to come.

    Jeff Dean lives in Little Rock.

    Originally published July 21, 2006
     
  11. sorry traditional

    Just get tired of all the complaining, pissing, and moaning. We have the freedom to hunt, places to do it, guns we can hunt with, and aren't constantly fearing for our lives. I'd say be happy with what we have. If we can get to DNR about leasing rules and needing more public ground, great. Time to let it go on this forum and do something about through the government. The constant complaining about this and that has got me a little disenchanted with this forum.

    Eric
     
  12. Eric,

    You do have the freedom NOT to read my post. The reason I posted this thread is to try to educate some of you here. I am truly sorry if it sounds like complaining, but you must admit our sport of hunting is being threated on several fronts. One great threat is what I wrote in the first post of this thread. <Thanks anyway, Eric, for taking time and reading my post!>
     
  13. Understood....David, this is why education is so important. When all hunters understand about proper doe harvest, etc. then we start to see positive results for everyone. Unfortuneately we still see too many hunters who don't understand that keeping deer numbers at, or below carrying capacity, is directly tied to harvesting surplus does. Good discussion....
     
  14. Eric, hang in there bro. deer season will be here soon enough. I'm a Social Studies (U.S. Hist.) Major, and I think Democratic "discussion" is good....
     
  15. Thanks, very much, Dean; and you're correct about the proper amount of Doe harvest, in a given area. While it is okay to be a little selective on the type of animal one wants to harvest; it must be done in an orderly & prudent way to insure the health of the total herd. That means other Deer, besides that 12 pointer, need to be harvested, as not everyone can harvest a "big rack wall hanger Buck". It just doesn't work out that way in Nature.
     
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