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Explain The Numbers

Discussion in 'Indiana Whitetail Hunting' started by BREWERSVILLE OUTFITTERS, Sep 15, 2006.

  1. Basically it compares the average harvest pre-OBR ('99-'01) and post-OBR ('02-'05).

    If we are going to show numbers these are the numbers I like to explanation needed here! Do we have '05 HRB results yet??????:bouncy:


  2. Going to be awhile, I still have over a dozen incompleted forms from people who owe the entry money or a signed fair chase. Had a few others who wanted a measurement (and bugged me several times to measure their deer right away) and then haven't returned my calls on getting the entry stuff done. Some of these deer measure over 160 typical.

    Don't want to complain, but just be honest with me up front. If you don't want it entered, I will still measure the deer, no problem. It's the ones that say they are going to, and appear excited about it, and then don't follow through that grinds on me a little. Being as anal retentive as I am, it bugs me not to have my files cleaned up going into 06.
    Just venting a little. Boone & Crockett changed a few things on moose measuring and on the other forms, so they sent me a new set of scaore sheets to use in 06. I was just straightening everything up and looking at all the incomplete entrys in my brief case last night.
  3. Exactly what is it that is unclear? The Baseline average is three years of pre-OBR data averaged, it is displayed in blue. The Four years of OBR data is averaged and is displayed in Red. The Change is the percentage of change from the Pre-OBR average to the post OBR average. These numbers allow you to compare & contrast the pre-OBR vs. the post OBR period and show which part of the deer harvest statistics have shown the most change. The percentages after each number are the portion of the harvest that each category made up, of the total. For example in 2004, 38% of the total archery harvest was made up of bucks.
  4. I was Just wondering How are we Killing more Deer with a One Buck Rule.....I know it was explained Before But would Like to see somthing Again!!!!! So I can Refer to it at a Later Date.....No trick Question Here!!!! Thanks
  5. Did anyone else notice that the percentages didn't change in the firearms catagory? Pre-OBR bucks made up 45% of the average harvest, post-OBR they still make up 45% They dropped more significantly in archery (9% drop) however, total harvest the percentage of the harvest that is bucks only dropped by 2%. Also, if you look at the numbers we're harvesting more bucks post OBR than we were pre-OBR.

    Can somebody explain this to me, it would seem, at least to me, that the OBR hasn't really done very much, or am I missing something?

    Edited to add: I want to make it clear I am NOT against OBR, I'm just not sure what the OBR is doing, maybe I'm missing something?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2006
  6. Here is my take on it. The obr has caused awareness of what it takes to see bigger deer. Simple as that. We can compare numbers we can say hey it works hey its a load, whatever the fact of the matter is it helped joe schmoe wake up and say wait a minute if i kill this my season is over and I am hunting does only. If I kill this then he isnt going to get any bigger and i wont be able to see a bigger one next year. Ive seen it taking place on properties that are usually brown and down and its a wonderful thing. Awareness to the idea that passing small bucks is ok its what needs to be done and that it works. Along with this it has made the DNR realize we need to harvest does. Which makes the herd in a closer balance. Crunch the numbers they can be twisted any which way you like. For example...
    in the years 2000 and 2001 the buck harvest was up and the doe harvest down respectively by 2 percent. That means that things were working before the obr was put in place if you believe everything the numbers are showing. I wish we would all just put the numbers away. Anybody can make them say what they want. The fact is and I firmly believe it the OBR needs to stay because it makes more and more people aware of what it takes to see bigger deer and it allows those that are trying to manage their farms to do so succesfully without the effects of neighbors and their attitudes and now everyone is on the same playing field.
  7. my take is that although the chart doesn't appear to show that much change in numbers what the chart doesn't show is the age structure available now more so than 4 yrs. ago. the obr is great for age structure of bucks availabe in the caliber that most hunters dream of taking. more 2, 3, 4, 5, yr. old bucks. the charts show percentages of bucks compared to does in which yrs. pre and post obr but that's it. then look at the book entries and see how the quality has improved steadily in just 4 yrs. that's the proof in the pudding so to speak. can you see where this is going? there's still young bucks being killed but at the same time there's more being able to get older thanks to the obr. it can only get better.
  8. Very well stated Scrape.....

    In a appears that, from a percentage standpoint, that buck numbers haven't changed much, but alas a 4% decrease translates into quite a few animals statewide. Also, remember that doe harvest has climbed by this same percentile margin. Also huge. Any biologist worth his salt out there will tell you that when more female deer are killed, the number of mature bucks will also climb. More hunters are killing does...which trims the herd, and consequently more bucks are slipping through to older age classes. I only looked at the firearms numbers too.

    What you have to remember is that there are more bucks available to be harvested now than ever before, and like Scrapewatcher says, more of these bucks are getting older. Why? Because the OBR only allows an individual hunter to kill one. You kill your buck, and then the other one you may have killed a few years ago is going to live. Also, these hunters who have taken there buck will, if they want more venison, kill does. ANd remember, herds which experience proper doe harvest will recruit more mature bucks. It's a nice cycle....

    On the flip side.....this is why the number of bucks killed overall may not change drastically from here on out, because there are more bucks (and consequently more older bucks) in the herd now than ever before. Simply put, more bucks available (as a percentage of the herd as a whole) means that more hunters will have a better opportunity to kill one.

    Also, keep in mind that the overall harvest figures are based on formulas and not true numbers. In other words, they don't count all the deer at all the check stations that are checked in statewide. The numbers of fawns harvested is based on a formula. HOw they get this formula I don't know.

    Something we don't know: How many deer are there in Indiana?
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 15, 2006
  9. Brewer, remember too that 75% of Indiana's counties were issued more antlerless permits prior to last season. This in part helps to explain why total deer numbers were up last year.
  10. Maybe they are Counting Button Bucks as Bucks....The numbers say Bucks and Does...not Antlered and Antlerless!!!!! just my thought!!!!!
  11. In looking at these numbers a couple of things are worth noting. First, OBR has had the biggest impact on the make up of the archery harvest numbers. This makes sense since archers were the ones that were most likely to shoot two bucks a year. It has caused an overall reduction in the number of bucks harvested during archery season and has caused a corresponding increase in the number of does harvested during archery season. This is a good thing, we want to encourage hunters to pass on smaller bucks and harvest more does. The average doe to buck ratio in the archery harvest under OBR is 60/40. That is an awesome harvest ratio! Prior to OBR the archery ratio was 49/51. This awesome B/D harvest ratio in archery season has also helped further enhance the overall combined harvest ratio.

    To some this harvest ratio may not mean much but when you compare these harvest statistics to another state, particularily a state like Michigan, which allows two bucks to be harvested, you see a dramatic contrast. In Michigan the average B/D harvest ratio for the last seven years has been 56% antlered bucks vs. 44% antlerless deer. This average is the same for both firearms & archery seasons. Michigan kills more bucks than does year in and year out. That is the recipe for really lousy deer hunting and that is what OBR helps prevent. OBR encourages hunters to harvest more does and to be more selective in the bucks they harvest. Another statistic which was not included is the change that the OBR has caused in the age of bucks harvested. Prior to OBR 2.5+ year old bucks made up only 39% of the total buck harvest. After OBR that figure has increased to 49% of the total harvest. During this same period there has been a 33% increase in the doe harvest, as well.

    OBR has and will continue to do good things for Indiana deer hunting. Don't make a huge mistake and throw it all away, just so a small number of hunters can bag two bucks a year.
  12. Amen Brother......:bowdown:
  13. All I know is for every buck I killed last year I killed 3 does. For a state to not to have an estimate of how many deer there is crazy and for the numbers to derived from sort of formula and not actuals is even more bizarre. That's a perfect snapshot of Indiana government for you though.
  14. You mean "government" don't you tree?? My hat goes off again to our Michigander friend who is well read and speaks very well. You are great with numbers and easy to read and understand.