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Have we gone to far with Technology?

Discussion in 'Indiana Whitetail Hunting' started by jbwhttail, Jul 9, 2007.

  1. [FONT=Verdana, Arial]This weekend I was watching the "outdoor" channel during the heat of the day,(old man syndrom) I saw an advertisement for a new CVA muzzle loading rifle. The rifle has a new "Electronic" ignition system! The gun is fired by a spark from a battery.

    I have concerns for this new technology,where will it end? A few years ago we saw a muzzleloader that uses smokeless powder, we took a limited range rifle and created a single shot centerfire rifle. These rifles have been advertised and proven to shoot 250-350 yards with better accuracy than anything we currently use to deer hunt in Indiana today.

    I'm old enough to remember when muzzle loaders hunted along with the gun hunters, they wanted a season all thier own and wanted it a "primitive weapons season. with the advent of smokeless powder and the electronic ignition we have lost "primitive".

    What do you folks think?

    I like the hunt where I must have checked my weapon for a clean nipple, I like the smell and the smoke. I still enjoy having to thoroughly clean the rifle, and I like the suspense of if it will go off....

    I say we need to keep technology limited and regulate it to bullet design, black powder substitutes and barrel twist. We have lost what muzzle loading was and is intended to be.......
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  2. Now all we need is an automatic loading muzzle loader. I saw that gun also in a magazine, I think. Didn't know what to think of it. I won't be getting one soon, and I don't know if I would trust it.
     

  3. Long time no hear Joe. Yeah, I agree...the electronic ingnition should be limited to an outboard fishin' motor...LOL.
     
  4. Fish Hook

    Fish Hook Banned

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    Are these plark plugs universal? Will they work in my lawn mower?
     
  5. I don't know what to think of this "advancement". On one hand the engineer in me loves to see creative new ideas ... even if they seem kind of loony. But on the other hand, I hate to see certain traditions shattered.

    I personally think the electronic ignition muzzleloader is flawed from the stand point that I don't think it will be too convenient to the end user. Would you have to remove or disable the power source before and after shooting times? How reliable is it in the rain? What about when the battery dies or corrodes? It just seems flawed for a hunting situation.

    I have no real problem with the gun as far as developing something new for people to shoot. Just doesn't seem practical for hunting.

    I also agree that this, just like the smokeless powder guns (IMO), steps too far outside the "primitive" weapons box for a traditional muzzleloader season. The unfortunate side of this is where do you draw the line? Is then a T/C Omega or T/C Encore shooting 777 powder and sabotted bullets outside of primitive? For some ... yes ... for many ... no.

    The debate is somewhat similar to what many have argued and some continue to argue over archery equipment. Is the modern compound bow too technologically advanced in comparison to a long bow or recurve?

    Where does what is acceptable end for the individual and when do you apply this limit to the masses? I don't have the answer. As for the electronic ignition gun ... I'll pass. I'll stick with my more "primitive" T/C Omega shooting 777 and a sabot bullet. Daniel Boone would have done it that way if given the option.;)
     
  6. I've seen it advertised for a while now. I can't imagine it being as successful as say the buck growl LOL but it will still have a market.

    Every year I enjoy waiting to see what someone has come up with new. Some times I see something new and go holy cow I've used one of those forever !!! (At least variations of new products)
    Other times like with the electronic ign Muzzleloader I jsut go...Why ?
     
  7. Unfortunately there will never be an end. I think bowtech crossed the line with their new radical design in a compound. I think the compound in general has crossed the line. With a little practice a decent shooter can make reasonable accurate shots out to 50+ yards. Now im not saying that any of you guys that hunt are out there shooting deer at 50 yards with a compound, and I do realize that the fathers of archery (Bear, Pope, Young, Hill, St. Charles, etc etc) were taking shots at 80+ yards with their bows, but you must remember it was a different time and there was no ethical precedent set for them. We as hunters must realize that ethically we must draw a line somewhere. Only the individual can decide where they will draw the line at, and unfortunately the kill has outweighed the hunt in many peoples minds. Thus we have compounds that are nearing killing range where the old smooth bore slug guns were capable of, and muzzleloaders nearing the range of center fire rifles.
    Do i think there is more than technology to blame, you bet your bottom dollar. But do I also think that we as hunters getting caught up in all the hype of big deer, television shows, videos, contests, etc etc are to blame. Yeah.
    I love to hunt big deer as much as the next guy, but I dont consider a hunt a bust if I dont see that 140+, or big mature doe everytime out. I enjoy the hunt not for the kill, and I think that makes me different than some and not all caught up on technological advances. Im ok missing that 140 every now and then and im ok letting a deer walk if she is at 30 yards and not 20. Ive made up my mind on the technology thing, its time for others to do so as well....
    Like I said earlier its an individuals decision and I dont chastize anyone for shooting the compound or the smokeless rifles, but I will say just enough to get that person thinking about their decision. Thats the type of person I am.
     
  8. Interesting point.

    People say that technological advances diminish the history of the sport.

    It is often said that, "our parents want more for us than they had."

    Do you think Bear, Pope, Young, and the others wouldn't have used a 340 FPS compound had it existed when they were hunting? Teddy Roosevelt was always using the newest, biggest, most powerful rifle he could get his hands on.

    We need to remember that throughout history the greats of their time use the greatest tools of their time. You don't read history books about the trailblazers that did things "the old way."

    Just my .02.
     
  9. For me the Keep It Simple rule works best. I don't need anything more in my life that has another motor, sparkplug or battery to deal with. It's tough enough to remember to charge my cell phone.
     
  10. I say to each their own. If its deemed legal use it. However, I have an issue with loading a muzzleloader while having a live electronic ignition. At least when your loading now, you know not to add the primer until your ready.
     
  11. I didn't realize that you shouldn't put the cap on first, Rook. Thanks for the tip.

    Is that dangerous, or something?
     
  12. I ALSO AGREE THAT " PRIMITIVE" WEAPONS ARE REACHING A TECHNOLOGICAL CRESHENDO THAT WILL SOON, IF NOT ALREADY , REMOVES THEM FROM THEIR "PRIMITIVE" CLASSIFICATION. THIS TECHNOLOGICAL IMPROVEMENT WILL CONTINUE AS LONG AS WE LIVE IN A CAPATALISTIC SOCIETY AND AS LONG AS STATE AGENCIES ACCEPT THEIR RESULTS. REMOVE EITHER ONE AND THE MARKET OR NEED WILL FADE.

    OF THESE TWO, STATE WILDLIFE AGENCIES ARE THE ONLY PRACTICAL MEANS OF CURBING THE TECHNOLOGICAL SPIKE, AS CAPITALISM IS HERE TO STAY. IF DNR WERE TO REGULATE BY BANNING THE USE OF CETAIN TECHNOLOGY, THE MARKET FOR SUCH PRODUCTS WILL DIMINISH AND DRY UP.

    IF STATE WILDLIFE AGENCIES CHOOSE NOT TO CURB THE TECHNOLOGICAL SPIKE, THEN THEY MUST REALIZE THAT THERE IS TRULY NO LONGER A "PRIMITIVE" SEASON AND ALLOW ALL LEGAL FIREARMS DURING THAT SEASON; (IE, SHOTGUNS DURING MUZZLELOADING SEASON) AS TECHNOLOGY HAS ELEVATED THE MUZZLELOADER TO A SUPERIOR WEAPON.

    HOWEVER, AS LONG AS STATE WILDLIFE AGENCIES SEE A NEED FOR REDUCING THE DEER HERD AND WANT TO MAKE PROFIT FROM THE SALE OF LICENSES, THEY WILL TEND TO LOOK THE OTHER WAY AND ACCEPT THE NEW TECHNOLOGIES. IT WILL TAKE INPUT TO THEM FROM HUNTERS LIKE US TO SAY WHEN AND WHAT IS ENOUGH AND NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE.



     
  13. I guess my thing is, here in indiana, as i read the regs book, nowhere, do i see the word, "primitive", i see archery, i see muzzleloader...

    Are these supposed to be "primitive" season? Or weapon specific only?

    Everything evolves, failing to acknowlege that is ignorance. Fact of the matter is, sabots are safer, more accurate, and more efficient than round balls, broadheads are more true than stone chips tied on the end of a stick...its just true...
     
  14. Deano.....to each their own. I don't set the primer while I am staring down the opposite end of the barrel. The primer is set after I load.