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Is this a good trend for 2 1/2+ bucks?

Discussion in 'Indiana Whitetail Hunting' started by CutNShoot, Feb 8, 2006.

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  1. I never got an answer on the other thread so here it is again.

    I would think some one would step up and say yea or nay.

    Good trend or not?

  2. Eruption Toothwear Anyone?????

    How do they determine those ages of the bucks sampled?????

    1) Go to
    2) Type in cementum "annuli method of aging whitetails".
    3) Laugh at the above charts.
    4) Repeat (if necessary)

    I thought that Dr. Mitchell said that the OBR wasn't having any significant impact on the age structure of deer; only shifting to WHEN they are harvested??? Could have fooled us by this chart. Interesting!!!!

  3. Yes it is..

    Good trend or not?
  4. I have to agree with Dean, aging deer by the tooth wear is very shakey and not very acurate. In most cases the deer are actually older then appear, in others they are younger then appear. A lot of variation is due to different soil types.

    Yes it is a good trend, now that everyone is so hyped on the OBR and buck management lets step that up another notch. Lets, all hunters, give up hunting durning the rut to keep pressure off the mature bucks.
  5. A few things come to mind when I see these graphs..........

    1) How did they come to these conclusions? Method Please......

    2) Where are these guys getting this data.......cause in the last 22 years at Kosciusko County's most popular check station, I've only had zero deer aged by a DNR rep.....and I've checked bucks every year?
  6. Skeptical????

    That's just it Scarlet. I realize that doing cementum annuli on several thousand deer isn't practical, but if they are going to use eruption tooth wear method, when and where are they doing it at? I've heard that the only time that they do it is during opening weekend of firearms season. Why not all season long??? I have watched a DNR person "age" deer before in Allen County. He looked inside of Adam O'Connors bucks mouth and said "no older than 4.5", but this is a buck that we know for a fact was at least 5.5, so I am not impressed in the least. He looked in the mouth for a whole 3-5 seconds. HUH??????

    By what you said above...Are you a little skeptical of these methods that the DNR uses????
  7. Dean,

    You're dodging the question.

    Good trend or not?
  8. There's Where He Made His Mistake, The Dnr Guy Looked In Adam Oconnor's Mouth Instead Of The Deers. Lol. I'm Sorry It Just Struck Me Funny!
  9. trend

    I'll I am a rookie,:biggrin: but not foreign to graphs....looks like a postitvie trend to me.

  10. Sceptical is an understatement.

    After going to a Forum meeting for hunters in Plymouth Indiana several years back concerning deer/doe permits and such.......and we all watched Jim Mitchell starting to literally fall asleep.......(no I am not kidding) at the table in front of us as one of his other workers was gathering and commenting on our round-table ideas..........I lost all faith in that idiot and our state DNR reps. The look on his face as he was confronted on nodding off in front of 150+ people..............priceless.

    And get this...........from that year forward all input was taken out of Forums put into 1:1 settings........which I then was told in the 1:1 setting by the State DNR rep...."you shouldn't be thinking that way".......And he was suppose to be there just gathering feedback!!!!!!!!!!!!! Interestingly enough his question was what was my position on the current "Farmer Depredation Permit System" answer was....."I at least thought it would be good for the health of the area herd for the rep authorizing the # of Deps to at least show up on the damn farm and assess the situation before authorizing 12 deps when you could go a whole season and not see 12 deer!!!!!!!!!! And I get told "you shouldn't be thinking that way".

    Flippin' Amazing.

    Yes............sceptical of DNR, sceptical of DNR leadership, sceptical of DNR leadership agenda, sceptical of how they collect data for their agenda...etc, etc.

    Pretty potent to say...........but dang it.........OBR is a nugget they gave us with no promises attached and I just haven't found any printed material from Mitchel saying he has even noticed the slightest positive trend with OBR.......even though he has been given AMPLE opportunity to say the #'s show gain in what OBR was set out to do.

    And yes I'll say it again..............he was falling asleep in front of us all.

    How Ironic.
  11. Scarlet Dew,

    This is one of the best posts I have read in terms of it taking the words out of my mouth.

    I went to the public meetings, the first one in Plymouth. I also met with people in my area on the 1:1 stage when they went to that type of meeting. I was shocked at how the biologists and DNR people were telling me what was wrong with my thinking instead of writing down what I was thinking!

    I was totally against the liberal depredation permits that were being handed out years ago, some by the dozens. I knew of farmers with 50 plus permits for their farm. What always got me was that they talked about the corn damage by those deer and how the stalks were all knocked down. I always said much of that was coon damage. The fur market took its dive and many people quit trapping and hunting coons like they used to. I would ask them if a qualified person from the state came out to look at the damage and most of the time the answer was no. I always thought and still think a lot of that crop damage was done by coons and that deer got a bad rap.
  12. I forgot this:

    I have been to the check station where they are aging deer on opening weekend. I can say that the people doing the aging are trying very hard and working very hard at what they do. I have seen them really pry the mouths open to get a good look at the teeth and I don't want to take anything away from their efforts, but...

    We have a running joke in our close circle of friends and relatives. Most deer are 1 1/2, anything that might break 120 is 2 1/2, and if its a deer that can hardly walk anymore its 3 1/2. I have never seen a person age a deer at older than 3 1/2. I have seen what I believe are some truley monsterous 2 1/2 year olds. What gets me is that I know a person who raises deer. The deer get great nutrition, etc, etc. I have seen what they carry on their heads at 1 1/2, 2 1/2, 3 1/2 and 4 1/2 years old. The racks on these 2 1/2 year old bucks aren't even close to the "2 1/2" year olds getting aged at the check station.
  13. I am with you Scott on the damage I have seen to fields.The deer I have watched do not damage the stalk at all, but eat right off the ear!The beaver dams are chaulked full of corn stalks, and have watched coons knock the stalks right over.
  14. \

    I don't know what to say to this Scarlet. You are the man!!!! Scarlet, where did you get your "education" for deer management. What it didn't do is put me to sleep Scarlet...too entertaining to put me to sleep!!!!!'re right, you ARE a ROOKIE!!!!
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2006
  15. seen the same

    I've watched in awe at the check station on opener as a DNR agent used his tool to look at teeth on big bucks and was consistently aging them 1-2 years younger than they obviously were. Almost always with the experianced hunter standing there and thinking/ and or saying "your wrong!".
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2006
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