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OBR Question

Discussion in 'Indiana Outdoor News' started by Tim Corn, Nov 16, 2006.

  1. I am big supporter of the OBR, and here is a question for everybody. As the way it stands now, every hunter gets one buck, so obviously you are going after the nicest buck you can. Whether or not he makes the record book doesn't matter. Let's say you are fortunate enough to get him, what happens to all the "JUNK" bucks that are passed up? Are they going reproduce more and more "JUNK"? Will we see a jump in non-typical bucks in the coming years? Will certain management herds be hurt by consistantly harvesting a genetically superior buck year after year? This is just a thought and was wondering what everbody's opinion would be!
     
  2. you are exactly right the older and more mature hunters get they will do the right thing i took a shot at an ugly buck this year that i don't want it in the herd breeding does i misssed but i will hunt this buck during gun season we don't have to have a wall hanger every year sometimes you have got to do the right thing
     

  3. Good question Tim...I don't know. The superior bucks are going to get "theirs" most likely before the lesser bucks do so it may not be as big of an issue as we think. Plus, the superior bucks are going to have more years to spread their genetics before someone finally takes them down. I took a junk rack this year but I don't think he was a junk deer based on his size and the good side of his rack. Either he was injured or was on the decline or both, I'm not really sure. As buckhead said we don't have to take a wallhanger every year, and most often do not. In my opinion there are NO junk whitetails, just some that seem to be almost perfect. I'll remember this deer as much as any other due to the fact that he was huge in body and put me on a tracking job after him that may go unmatched in my hunting lifetime (...I hope!).
     
  4. Read Dr. Kroll's research of spikes, etc. in the last two issues of NAW. Most of the "inferior" racked 1.5yr old bucks catch up to the studs at the age of 4.5yr old. So those junk bucks just need 2 or 3 years to get bigger, but by then they are very hard to hunt and kill.
     
  5. I second what Eric said. Also, remember that does carry just as much--if not more-- influence on what kind of rack their sons will carry, so technically culling bucks will do little to a certain herd unless many, many, many of them are being culled. Also, remember, that bucks don't reach full sexual maturity until after their 4th birthdays.
    "Junk" bucks, as some people define them, are merely immature bucks that haven't reached their full antler potential yet; and then again some of them are mature bucks with poor antler genetics. Any mature buck with a "bad" rack could be culled (some of you remember that I did this last year), but unless all of your neighbors, etc. are doing it too it really wouldn't have a big impact on the overall antler genetics down the road. Sure, I took a big bodied, mature buck with a tiny rack out of the gene pool last November, but he certainly did some breeding in his time. Did I impact the genetics of the herd long term. Probably not....
    Indiana has excellent antler and body genetics, but so too do we have bucks with inferior genetics. Even the best herds on the continent have bad genes in them. It's a fact of life. It comes down to the luck of the draw on what genes a certain fawn possesses. Same goes with humans.
    This is true under the OBR;or conversely, under a multiple buck situation. In the free ranging herds that we hunt, it would take many, many years to influence the genetics of our herds, so it's probably silly to even worry about it. Personally, I say hunt hard, kill the buck of your choice and don't worry about "junk" bucks. If you see a huge bodied buck with a small rack...kill him. If not, oh well. Also, kill those surplus does.........

    In the real world killing mature bucks and mature does will keep genetics diverse...all the while providing fine "trophies" for all of us to kill.
    Also consider this, studies by the leading biologists have proven that a given buck will only be able to inseminate a small number of does in a year due to the fact that logistically it's impossible for them to breed that many. Think of it this way...... If the king bull of the woods meets up with a hot doe on, say, November 10th, he'll stay with her and breed her multiple times while she is in her 24-48 hour breeding estrus cycle. What happens to the other does who are in breeding estrus during this same time frame???? That's right, they get bred by the buck that is lucky enough to be with her when she's ready to be bred. It could be any number of bucks, but nature has intended for big mature bucks--who have fought their way into the breeding pool-- to do the majority breeding. But, it doesn't always happen in this way.
    It could be any number of subordinate bucks out there doing the breeding of a certain doe. It could even be a young, 1.5 year old 5 pointer doing the breeding. Is this buck inferior?? It's impossible to tell, because he hasn't matured yet. He could grow to be a Boone and Crockett monster at 5.5 years old. He does, however, carry the same DNA matierial at 1.5 as he will at 5.5. (This is another reason why harvesting surplus does is a good practice. It lessens the chance that "inferior" bucks will get that many chances to breed.)
    Any given buck out there won't breed many more than 5 does in a given season; and most times less. It's logistically impossible. Dr. Kroll's, and others' DNA/genetics studies have substantiated this view also.
     
  6. Thanks for the insight Dean. All I know is when I started deer hunting about 10 years ago I never saw bucks, good or bad. Now when I hunt I seem to see at least 3-10 on any given day during firearms and muzzleloader seasons. I personally like seeing more bucks to shoot at than in years past. Are some of them "inferior" genetically? Possibly but I still like seeing deer. It keeps me sharper on stand and I don't get bored at all seeing whitetails walking in front of me.
     
  7. I AGREE WITH ERIC, I READ THE SAME ARTICLE. I THINK GIVEN THE TIME SPIKES AND SMALL RACKED DEER WILL EVENTUALLY CATCH UP AND BECOME A MORE ATTRACTIVE TARGET.THEY MAY NEVER GROW TO TROPHY STATUS, BUT THEY SHOULD AT LEAST GET TO A RESPECTABLE SIZE. I THINK ALL "SEASONED" DEER HUNTERS SHOULD STRIVE TO HARVEST AS MATURE A BUCK AS THEY CAN FOR THE AREA THAT THEY HUNT. KNOWING THAT NOT ALL AREAS WILL PRODUCE TROPHY DEER BECAUSE OF GENETICS , HUNTING PRESSURE, OR NUTRITION. LET THE " JUNK " BUCKS GO, IF YOU CAN, GIVE`EM A COUPLE OF YEARS.
     
  8. I wish everyone thought this way, Brich.
     
  9. Doe's carry The Good and Bad Genes our a least a Big Part of the genes!!!!
     
  10. There are so many mature Bucks that we don't even see each year, these deer are keen to human behavior, thats why alot are nocturnal, I have seen more bucks since OBR has came into affect, it's great to see more deer in the woods and the does will run there male offspring away to keep the chance of inbreading from happening and a doe will not let a juvenile even mess with her because she knows the big boy will be around sooner or later.
     
  11. how do you explain white deer?
     
  12. A much shorter gun season and the possibility to take 2 bucks with bow would be great for me. But I haven't seen very many mature bucks at all this year during bow season. Guess I better quit sleeping in my treestand and pay more attention.
     
  13. i've read all the threads i don't agree totally

    the buck i saw this season had at least 8 points on one side the rack was not a pretty site the right side main beam grew down the side of the face and almost tipped the end of the nose and not a point on it so i don't see how this buck would need time to catch up he had problems i personally think that he needs to be taken out of the heard dominant deer do get most does but next year it could have produced another buck deformed
    why do the outfitters have cull bucks and does ,to get the inferior out of the heard? wrong or right take what you want or feel is right for your area
     
  14. Well there is going to be albino's in every species, deer, humans, snakes, ect...
     
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