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Proposed rule changes that will affect trapping and ADC

Discussion in 'Indiana Trapping and Varmint Hunting' started by Heavyduty, Jul 14, 2007.

  1. Well guys it is finally in action.
    There was a rule change proposal today at the Fish and Wildlife committee meeting. This will affectively change "trap size " Gray area

    it will cover the #3 soft catch traps
    it will cover "dog proof" coon style traps


    It will also cover the question on keeping coyotes outside the regular fur harvest dates. this is not a change but rather re-written to remove any chance for loop holes
    it will be clear that a coyote taken with written permission outside of the regular fur harvesting season "must be euthanized within 24 hours.

    It will affectively make the #11 dls trap legal to use in Indiana


    The basics of this trap size wording will cover the traps as follows

    Traps that are the same measurements at a Bridger #2 (this is the largest #2 trap)
    can still be set on land without offset
    traps larger(in measurement) than a #2 Bridger up to a Bridger#3(in measurement) must have a offset of at least 1/8 inch

    it also has wording for rubber jaws

    this will allow the #3 soft catch trap
    the #4 Duke coil ( because it is smaller in measurement that the #3 Bridger)
    the MB650 will be allowed
    all the above will be allowed on land
    basically anything smaller that the #3 Bridger trap is still allowed on land

    all other will need to be completely submerged under water

    this wording also will say

    coyotes taken outside regular fur harvesting season by written permission may not be
    sold
    traded
    bartered or
    gifted


    also
    it will spell out that animals may not be pocessed more than 20 days after the close of season! (this is already a law)
    this will spell out what type of animals
    coyote
    red fox
    so forth and so on


    the actual size of the largest trap that is proposed on land will be
    6 1/2 inch's unless completely covered by water

    anything larger than a 5 5/8 must have a 1/8 inch offset to be allowed on land

    it will remove "killer trap" and replace it with body-grip



    it also spells out what "offset" means in definition




    there is also some proposed changes for ADC men
    that will allow them a 7 1/2 inch body-grip trap in stead of a 8 inch
    (just like fur trappers)
    It also spells out that all trap of ADC permit holders must be checked "And any animal removed at least once every 24 hours
     

  2. my reply

    As most on here know the legislature in 1990 inacted a law to allow the "taking" of coyotes year round. IDNR opposed it then and now has decided they need to close a loophole in that law. For the past few years some individuals have been "trapping" not taking coyotes year round and have been selling them live to high fence operations that use dogs to run them for killing by club or paid shooters, sound familiar? Some are keeping the coyotes for "urine purposes". Again does this sound familar?

    Recently IDNR has come out with a change to the Administrative rule and it reads..........

    This is the propesed rule change on coyotes "word for word".
    The bold is what is being added to current rule.

    (1) HUNTING COYOTES IS FROM NOON ON oCT. 15 TILL NOON ON MARCH 15 OF THE FOLLOWING YEAR: AND

    (2) TRAPPING COYOTES IS FROM 8:00 ON OCT. 15 UNTIL NOON ON MARCH 15 OF THE FOLLOWING YEAR.

    (D) A PERSON WHO POSSESS LAND, OR ANOTHER PERSON DESIGNATED IN WRITING BY THAT PERSON, MAY TAKE COYOTES ON LAND AT ANYTIME. A COYOTE TAKEN BY TRAPPING UNDER THIS SUBSECTION MUST BE EUTHANIZED WITHIN 24 HOURS. A COYOTE TAKEN UNDER THIS SUBSECTION SHALL NOT BE:

    (1)POSSESSED FRO MORE THAN 24 HRS
    (2) SOLD;
    (3) TRADED;
    (4) BARTERED; OR
    (5) GIFTED

    In other words the coyote is still legal to be "taken" but it is lethal and we are not selling our wildlife as we have deer. The legislature never intended to allow people to trap and sell live coyotes, the intent was to kill them and protect livestock. Same as deer, people are selling our wildlife.

    Here is the contact to the NRC to comment

    jkane@nrc.in.gov

    Let the Natural Resources Commision know that ALL wildlife belongs to us and we don't want individuals to sell it .... Coyotes or Deer it is not a comodity in Indiana!

    :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: :bonk: Do we respect wildlife or do we sell it to the highest bidder?

    Here is a link to some who believe it is their right to sell our wildlife out of regular seasons.....http://trappersfreedom.proboards31.com/index.cgi?board=Pics&action=display&thread=1184591142
     
  3. Trappers board............

    beware if you don't agree with their position they ban you......lol I'm use to it. So much for free speech.....;) Be careful commenting on the link above.

    Heavyduty. how about you notify the members here how both groups of trappers decide to go with this issue.......... I hear folks are split big time on selling live wild animals taken out of regular trapping seasons.....:help:
     

  4. so does this mean you disagree with trappers selling all the fur from the animals they trap , after all it is a comodity

    The state allows commercial fishing , so what about that?

    I understand you questioning the summer time deal but be very careful because you are boardering and all out attack on trapping in general with such comments
     
  5. I am against ONLY the live sale of any captured wildlife in Indiana or any other State. The wildlife in the United States belong to the citizens, it is not for individuals to sell. Commercial fishing is another seperate issue.

    I have always supported and will continue to support trapping, this isn't about trapping. It is about flagrant abuse of a law that intended for the coyotes to be shot and killed out of season. The Indiana Legislature created a precident and a bad law by allowing the "taking" of coyotes year round. They were "sold" that Indiana had too many coyotes and public safety and livestock were in danger. Neither was true then or today! No where in the Indiana code did it mention the means of taking nor did it address selling of live coyotes or the products of the coyote. That seems to be left to IDNR, now they are fixing what was broken.

    IDNR is not saying you can't trap, they are saying you can't sell a live coyote. This is not a precident, last year they stopped the collecting and sales of turtles being transported and sold to pet shops.
     


  6. Some trappers are split on the issues surrounding live market trapping, and that's where you (as an anti-trapper) see an opportunity to pry them apart. This little fit of yours is exactly what I predicted while you were swinging on deer farmers. You obviously came up short on the deer issue, so maybe you can save some face by attacking a smaller group. In the end I believe you'll see trappers will stick together, as deer hunters did, and you'll be realigning your crosshairs for a smaller group next year.


    For those who are clueless, live market trapping through the summer months is a small portion of the trapping done in this state. This has been practiced for 25 years, nothing surprises the IDNR about this issue. The closure of this loophole is merely a power trip. Next year the loophole may be spotlighting, maybe trail cameras, maybe expandable broadheads. With leaders like those in the IDHA the state's hunting community is never far from attack.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2007
  7. Lets hear your side Jrbhunter!!!!

    ....
    "For the past few years some individuals have been "trapping" not taking coyotes year round and have been selling them live to high fence operations that use dogs to run them for killing by club or paid shooters,"...... Is this really going on Jrbhunter?????
     
  8. From a Moderator?????

    I have trapped as recently as 15 years ago, the area round my home was rural and I could do it safely without catching pets. I trapped all the years of my youth and most of the time made more money from fur than my buddies punching the clock at a restaraunt year round. I've stood at meetings with the trappers on issues that affected hem and not my chosen sport of recent years. To call me anti hunter or a Peta Representative is nothing more than a cheap insult.


    This is not a deer issue, and that issue is not lost. IDNR has decoded to let a judge decide, the suit is moving forward. It's costing Hoosier Sportsmen and it is eating away at the shooting pen operators profits. Now that is fact! Nothing has been lost, just delaying the demise of these operations.

    Now JRB, would you like to tell folks about the shooting pens for coyotes and how they operate? Let your peers decide if the resource they own should be trapped caged and sold live........
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2007
  9. Let me make my position VERY clear.....

    I do not have a problem with folks trapping coyotes out of season if they choose. I have a problem with people who trap or capture a resource and then sell it for personal profit as a live animal.


    IDNR is trying to close a loophole created by the Indiana Legislature in 1990. The Legislature established a statute(it over rides Administrative Rule) allowing the "taking" of coyotes year round by a landowner or his designee. "Taking" was used as politically correct wording for killing. IDNR just wants to insure that the animals are killed, not transported.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2007
  10. HHHMMMMMMMM........ Let's see where this goes..... And yes Brew, it has been going on for sometime now....... Right or wrong.....
     
  11. Brewersville, I'm not sure what your question is exactly but yes live market trappiing has been a practice in Indiana for DECADES. Anyone who thinks this is "News" or even remotely a "loophole" is oblivious to the business of trapping in the midwest.

    Coyotes captured for the livemarket are used for a variety of reasons and one does include the training of trailing hounds... similar to other hound training facilities popular to most sportsmen. It's easy to make a knee-jerk reaction to this issue because it doesn't affect YOU, but everyone needs to take a moment and realize how many other sportsmen this does affect. The trappers are affected first, then the dog trainers, then houndsmen. Before long this "little loophole" will turn into a noose... a noose that weakens our community even further.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 24, 2007
  12. Jrbhunter.......How can this be good in the public eye inlight of the dog fighting with Michael Vick........ They have vicious wild meat eating animals in pens. They are selling them to be chased by other dogs, ultimately killed...... Is this is a "humane" way to take wildlife and dipose of it..?????:confused:
     
  13. Since when do sportsmen sit in a treestand pondering their lives through the public eye? How would they feel about a Muzzy slicing through a yearlings lungs? What about a fox clubbed in a trap, a wounded duck having it's skull crushed by a hunters molars or a bucket full of gigged frogs jumping around with their intrails hanging out? This whole "Public Eye" crap is getting old... it's used by high-road ethicists who would like you to believe THEIR WAY is the ONLY WAY to ethically enjoy the outdoors.

    This live market trapping is not something new... this has been going on for decades across this country and now that some Anti's have modified their agenda to target another small group there are people concerned about the "Public Eye" again?? Live market trapping itself isn't even in question here, merely the ability to do so during a 5 month portion of the year as we have for so long.

    Killing a coyote is not part of hound training- no firearms are taken into the running pens and the penalty for harming a coyote is severe enough the trainers are VERY cautious when the dogs bay up. Don't let your imagination run wild with propoganda- and don't let these Anti's chisel away at our rights any further.
     
  14. Jrb, it isn't enough that you charge to kill coyotes on top of what you make for pelts? So now you have to sell them alive? Sounds like a money making agenda! You going to try and trap and sell live deer, next, or just kill them for money, too?:16suspect